Last time I rambled on and on, I emphasized how “crazy” (and often impossible or near-impossible - at least on our own) Jesus’ instructions were (are).  So if it’s that hard, that radical, that challenging, is the picture of God as a demanding and unreasonable judge accurate?  Is it all really about obligation and sacrifice and suffering?

Easy answer: NO.  If we’re going to ask why Jesus commanded us to do crazy-hard, unorthodox things, maybe we should see if He told us why.  He did. 

John 15:9-11
“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.

He knows what brings joy.  Our flesh and our intellect does not. So He gave us instructions (commands) that will provide true, complete joy.  We ignore them because we think we know a better way, and we find that the church mirrors society at large in rates of depression, divorce, and every other disfunction connected to unhappiness, discontentment and a lack of true joy.  His crazy-hard commands are actually the path to real joy (or He was wrong, deluded, or a liar).  All for our good.  He did not command us to avoid treasure, He in fact commanded us to pursue treasure.  Treasure that matters.  Treasure that cannot be stolen, lost, or destroyed.  I’m not promoting a life of suffering, I’m trying to find (really, for myself - I’m not there by any measure) and promote an awareness of what I beleive to be the true path to joy and real treasure.

(Fictional editor’s note):  Jim, if you believe that so strongly, why don’t you live it more fully?  Ummm… wish I had an answer.  I don’t.  Let’s work through this together and encourage each other.  I really want KTM to be that kind of community and true support for each of us.  I need all of you to help me, because I am weak on my own.

Amen! Good word, Jim!  Lord, help us to obey out of our pure love for you!

Certainly agree that most of us fall far short in complete abondonement of the things that we have placed security in & passionately going after all the things we are called to.  Y’all can feel free to be real & tell me that I am making excuses, but I do believe that it is possible to run out ahead of your maturity level or run out ahead of what God is asking you to do in this season of your life.  I think this can lead to eventual discouragement, damage to ourself/others, etc.  I’ve heard lots of stories where it seems like that was a factor in a “shipwreck” (not nec. a toal loss, but very significant life crisis, disillusionment, etc.).  That should NOT keep us from being passionate & active about running after the high calling that we have to live a Christlike life.  I guess I am just saying that the “craziness” should always be bathed in prayer, counsel, patience, seeking guidance.  That is probably too often an excuse for inaction though.

You’ve put into words something that I’ve been struggling with as well (I don’t know if it was Rich or Karen who posted that).  We have to be so careful that we aren’t just doing the “crazy” things to prove to God or others that we really love Him or to prove that we’re not like all those other “complacent” Christians.  It’s not a competition to see who can live the most radical.  Any obedience to Jesus (which most certainly may be living in a way our culture deems crazy) must be out of pure love for Him.  I’ve been “been there, done that” in my life in terms of doing the “hard thing” just because it was the hard thing to do…I so agree with you, Rich or Karen, we must rely on the Holy Spirit, the spirit of truth, to lead us into the obedience that God may require of us.  But then I as I write that I’m reminded of some of the disciples that just dropped everything, left jobs and family to follow Jesus when he asked them to.  They didn’t necessarily ask for time to “pray about it”, etc.  What do we do with that?

I could not agree more.  Jesus told people to “count the cost”, and told them no one starts to build a building without first counting the cost and determining that they can see it to completion, also compared it to a king going to war - who would first calculate if he could win the battle.  I’ll clarify my thoughts in another post.  For me, the key is that we should recognize how “crazy” His commands are rather than ignoring that.  If our hearts and minds aren’t ready to follow those types of commands, we should examine our hearts and work toward a closer relationship with Him that will will enable that type of willing surrender.  I don’t think we should pound ahead if we know we are not ready.  But we should then recognize that not being ready to fully surrender to whatever the command is, is not where we should be.  The relationship and trust is then what to work on, not the works.  I know that’s where I need to grow.

Thanks for the feedback.  Sounds like we all agree that there is a tension here that must be wrestled with.  As usual, there doesn’t seem to be a one-size-fits-all formula for every situation.  Sometimes He is asking us to take an uncomfortable step forward & sometimes the wisdom is to wait and/or move in a different direction.  Good words that we must rely on the Holy Spirit as we pursue that deeper relationship.  We’ll keep working on that.  Thanks.
  - Rich

Just jumping in here, too, Rich. Don and I discuss this often.  We talk about the difference between fanaticism (kind of more about us!!) and truly surrendering/following Christ (all about HIM!!).  They are TWO DIFFERENT things, and we should make sure that we are choosing Christ.

Thanks for the input Barb.  Do you think it is usually easy to distinguish those two in our own hearts / lives?  Do you think those two things look distinct to an observer looking at our lives?  Appreciate your thoughts.

Maybe fanatacism is the wrong word to use. Everyone has their own definition of that one, I
suppose. What I consider (Christian)fanatacism is belief that focuses and acts on what one
wants to believe even if it is contrary to the word of God.  It is about ME and what I
believe to be true ONLY without prayer, without counsel, without the Holy Spirit. It allows
no other viewpoint. In its implementation, IT LACKS GRACE, AND IT LACKS HUMILITY.

Surrender to Christ to me is this ” I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in
me and I in him, we will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15: 5. It
is “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will
save it.” Luke 9:23. It is “Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do
what it says”. James 1:22.  It is “He has shown you, O man, what is good.  And what does the
Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”
Micah 6:8.

Depending upon the viewpoint of the observer, yes, they could look similar.  Especially if
the observer is “fanatical” about their own views.

I also think that one can be so scared or threatened that they see fanatacism where it is
not.  Fear can be a big hurdle to overcome. I know it has been for me.

“Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I
were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.” Galations 1:10.

So, the short version, again, is I believe that we must guard against fanatacism while not
shying away from following Christ (“crazy” as he was considered) as we seek to glorify God.

I think this should all be in the context of recognizing that when Jesus warned people to count the cost and to back off if the cost was too great, that resukted in a choice not to follow Him.  He wasn’t saying that if the cost is too great you can avoid paying the cost and still follow Him.  So if we count the cost and the cost of following His commands seems to great, or too “crazy” - while we should stop and pray and not proceed until we are at peace with the path, I don’t think we are asking IF we should pay the cost to follow Him, we’re praying that He transform us such that when we count the cost we become willing to obey Him and follow.

Thanks all.  Sounds like you (Barb) are saying that someone can be fanatical about doing good works, or “fanatical” on the other side (faith without works).  “Fanatical” may not be the perfect term, but I understand your point.