This video is over an hour long, and you really need to listen to the whole thing, including the closing minutes, to get the full message.  This is powerful and (in my opinion) critically important for all to hear.  Christians, non-believers, whatever the category… crtical stuff here that I beleive we really, really, can not afford to miss.  Please make the time to watch it.

It may take 10-20 second after clicking the play button for the video to start.  If it freezes off and on during the video, it can be viewed more easliy at this link:

http://www.vimeo.com/5833626

The Gospel Demands Radical Giving - David Platt from Together for Adoption on Vimeo.

Challenging stuff… but as David Platt says in the video, “Jesus’ words are our authority… Jesus’ glory is our goal”.  I only ask you to consider what he has to say in light of looking at Jesus and His words in that light.

My daughter and I listened to this a couple of days ago on Jen’s recommendation - I am still trembling. America is the “RICH MAN”....I am the “RICH MAN.”

This sermon is part of a series called Radical.
Here is a link to that series: (there are notes,too)
http://www.brookhills.org/media/series/radical/
Also, David Platt gave a sermon at the Southern Baptist Pastor’s conference in 2009 that is worth a listen if you are wanting more:
http://www.vimeo.com/5514321

I don’t know if I can handle anymore!!

Tell us more about how you are feeling Christine, if you want to, of course.    Are you agreeing, disagreeing, just feeling overwhelmed?  I felt that way at first, and then realized that “His yoke is easy and his burden is light”.  He doesn’t intend for us to carry the burden in a way that only he can handle.  Once I got that and started to just walk out little things that I knew to do, the joy in the obedience came.  I still feel an urgency that makes me feel like my heart might burst sometimes, but it isn’t painful anymore…usually.  I also needed some time to just go to his word, and let him gently speak it to my spirit.  Rest in his goodness and care.  He is such a kind and nurturing father.

Jenny, I am TOTALLY in agreement - I am just in the place of repentance for my past apathy/indifference and I feel a bit like I’m fumbling around trying to figure out what life is supposed to look like with this new awareness of suffering/need. Thanks for your encouragement and I do want MORE hard teaching…I want people to get in my face and challenge me…one of the reasons I am so thankful for KTM!!

Repentance is so important.  I also feel compassion for people as I understand how effective the enemy is at deception.  It is much harder to cut MYSELF slack based on that knowledge, but it is probably healthy to do so.  The flood of thankfulness for grace overwhelms me everytime I think about it.  Shudder!

We are also fumbling around with what this should look like.  Sometimes it seems impossible for our lives to look like Jesus seems to demand that they look like.  But there has to be a way.  A way that is good not only for others, but also good for us.  His yoke IS easy.  If this type of living is His will (and it seems obvious that it is when we open our eyes to what’s really in His Word) the answer will come if we seek him and truly desire to live as He wants us to.  If He is God, what is the difficulty? (that last hypotheitcal query is a Pensee, by the way)

I think part of the beauty of it all is that when we surrender completely, He faithfully transforms our desires to match His.  So it becomes less of a striving than it seems at the outset.  The hard part of this for me is that when something like adoption becomes my absolute desire, it stops feeling like I am doing anything. I feel the need to come up with something else because I want to be REALLY DOING something.  I am working on this.

This message was awesome and hard hitting.  At this point I believe everything he said is scriptural, consistent and true.  Anyone who claims to be a Christian needs to be aware of these warnings.

It makes me stop and evaluate my motives in everything I do.  Am I being ‘self indulgent’ and ignoring others, or am I giving myself to following Christ?

Thank You Holy Spirit for helping me/us!

More fumbling! No matter how much Francis Chan or David Platt say this is not salvation by works, I can’t help but feel the tension of that notion.  I thought Mr. Platt’s sermon was awesome and felt he qualified it well with scripture.  As we frequently say though, the truth is to be found in all of scripture.  When I read about God making Abraham, Issac and Jacob wealthy in worldly terms and seemingly not requiring an unusual commitment to the desperately poor of their day I see another side of all this.  I’m sure the problem is with me, but in spite of the disclaimers I can’t help but feel a performance based leaning in regard to ones status as a Christian.  And I am one who deffinately believes that our salvation should result in a specific way of living but there is a feeling here that isn’t sitting just right.  It is a tricky area to get just right.  I am feeling guilt and condemnation rather than “Crazy Love.”  Maybe it is just conviction.  Fumble, Fumble.

Love the different perspective being shared! Thank you.

One thing to consider is this sermon is part of a series which covers much more of the whole of scripture. This below is something I found interesting in the notes to another one of this series (the gospel demands radical abandonment part one:

A Radical Shift…
We must understand our use of money and possessions in the context of biblical history.
In the Past (Old Testament)...
Obedience to God led to acquiring possessions on earth.
God gave possessions to build a place that displayed His glory among the nations.

In the Present (New Testament and Today)...
Obedience to God leads us to abandon possessions on earth. God gives possessions to build a people who take His glory to the nations.

In In the Future…
Obedience to God leads us to accumulate possessions in heaven.  God gives possessions to build a paradise where we will enjoy
His glory with the nations.

Not saying this is right. Just found this perspective interesting.

When I studied the Patriarchs during a Beth Moore study I learned many things about that beginning covenant time period.  First, God was building a nation.  He had a specific purpose for the wealth that he blessed the patriarchs with.  Second, the patriarchs struggled even in their relative wealth.  Jacob’s boys still had to go to Egypt even with the covenant.  Third, as soon as the nation was accomplished, He immediately established the provision for the poor in the law and the prophets.  It is a HUGE focus of it.

I should refrase a couple of my comments. I told you I was fumbling.  First of all to say that this isn’t sitting right is not what I ment to convey.  I am in the main thrilled with the material from Francis and David.  I also don’t give a rip about the possessions.  I was born into a one car garage with dirt floor and 7 residents.  I too am trying to figure out what Jesus’ words really look like in this area.  I am trying to assimilate the information that connects “really, biblically” being saved with certain behaviors on our part, not getting the cart before the horse and all that.  Some of this takes on a chicken and egg quality which is tricky and at the same time critical.

Very challenging message.  Yes, Christians are called to a life of sacrificial giving.  One question I have is this:  Who is this message targeted at?  Born again believers or those who mistakenly think they are saved?  He says pretty clearly that people who are truly followers of Christ will be living their life this way.  That is a very hard saying & you can’t have it both ways. 
option 1:  All truly born again Christians are living a life of radical self-denial & sacrifice.
option 2 :  Born again believers are in a process of revelation and maturation as they walk through life.
I am with Don Carter that something doesn’t completely sit right with me when after hearing this talk.  I think he used the fear of hell as a big motivator.  Following the Word out of desire to avoid being numbered with the unbelievers will lead us eventually lead us to a bad place.

Great to have discussion on this topic!  Thank you.

Jesus said: “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching.  My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.  He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.” John 14:23-24.  He also said, “I am the vine; you are the branches.  If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit.”.John 15:5.  It goes on from there to say that those who don’t remain or the branches that wither and will be thrown into the fire. 

How can the God of the universe dwelling in us and inviting us to remain in him, and the act of obeying Him out of our love for him, not transform our desires and our actions?  Those desires that result in actions AREN’T what save us, but they are evidence of the grace that does.  That is what I got from the video, and I think Dr. Platt did a good job of stressing that. 

I just looked over the parable of the sower (Luke 8) and I think our salvation prayer message without explaining our role in the resulting heart transformation puts a lot of people at risk of being among the 3 (out of 4) categories that don’t produce a crop.

That is what makes listening to messages like this so valuable.  People can choose to take any message to an extreme and lose the truth in it.  That is where the fullness and total of God’s word is essential.  We all have to go to the word and know what Jesus’ commands are and evaluate whether we are following them.  What that looks like in each of our lives is going to look very different. 

I have experienced tremendous heart change as I have sought to remain in Him and obey Him.  I still struggle to maintain this a lot, but I finally at least get what it means to have my desires formulated by His desires.  I am telling you from personal experience that this is a whole new world of Christian living, and I wouldn’t exchange it for ANYTHING!

Please don’t think I understand it all or walk it all out, but I think the whole world would look different if this was taught more.  We can have so much (joy, peace, love, power) that a lot of the church would freely express that they are missing if we heard more about the results of loving obedience to our God after we experience His salvation by grace.

Thanks for your comments Jenny.  I don’t disagree with anything you say above.  Christians in this nation do need to have their hearts changed regarding materialism & giving.  I have heard great messages which I believe the Holy Spirit used to move my heart and my actions without making me feel condemned and guilty.  I feel that condemnation and fear are the overall tone of this message.  I feel bad saying this stuff because I don’t want to be taken as being critical of what is going on with KTM.  That is not my heart or my intention.  Just trying to be honest about my reaction to the message.  We love you guys & love what you are doing with KTM.

Thanks guys.  We don’t have a moments trouble with this sort of discussion.  In fact, it just makes the community better.  The funny thing is that we put this video out there because we thought it was so good in explaining the fact that this is a work that God does in us, and that there is no room for guilt in our motivation.  It is a good thing to consider that things that strike some one way will strike others another.  I think we can all be patient and choose not to be offended or threatened by that (just like you have in this case).  Very cool…we love you too!

I’m trying to figure out how all this fits together also.  Also, I REALLY want to emphasize that this is great discussion and is making me (and I think all of us) think.  I think that this is the type of discussion that has been lacking here and is very healthy and needed for all of us (me included) to grow and learn.

I think it is an error to fall into a salvation by works concept.  However, I think it is equally erroneous to fall into the comfort of a salvation by faith that does not spur us on to do what Jesus told us to do.

In Luke, Jesus leads into the parable of the house on the sand by saying “Why do you call me Lord and yet you don’t do what I tell you to do?  Let me tell you what that looks like…”  The conclusion is that the house falls and its destruction is complete.  Jesus also told the story of the sheep and the goats in which He seems to judge people only by their care for (or lack thereof) for the poor.  James tells us faith without works is dead.

The following question is not a rhetorical question.  I really want to figure this out and I don’t know how right now: How can a salvation by grace alone also require an element of works?  It is clear from the few scriptures I listed above and many others that some element of works is needed.  How does that work?  How do we fit this together?

Religious, political, academics… pick your arena, and you see swings between extremes and lots of throwing the baby out with the bathwater as new ideas take over.  I really don’t want to do that here.  Let’s all work on this.  How do these concepts fit together?  Let’s honor all of scripture and figure this out.  Between all of our thoughts and perspectives, and reading and praying, I think we can do it.

Thanks Jim.  I appreciate your reassurance that the comments are welcome.  I obviously don’t have it figured out either.  We’ll all keep working on it.  Glad we have this venue for discussion.

When I first started to think through these things more deeply, I asked the Lord, How can I please you? What do you require of me?

The following verse (below) floated through my mind and on it I meditated often. Through taking (small) steps toward walking out with His help what I perceived this verse meant, this path has actually become more clear to me.
I am so thankful for God’s Word to us.

Micah 6:8
He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.

After listening to David Platt, I was thinking of the biblical mandates to:

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling…Philippians 2:12
Examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith…2 Corinthians 13:5

In 1 John 13:5, John says: I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

When you look at what “these things” are in the text, one of them is definitely caring for those in need - 1 John 3:17-18.

I found myself pondering…does my life bear fruit in keeping with repentance Matthew 3:8?

The truth for me is “NO” - I feel as though I have been like the rich man in the parable just “tossing scraps” to those in need.

In my experience with KTM and several other things over the past several months - God has been revealing to me suffering/need both globally and locally, of which I was previously ignorant. I am just at the beginning of this journey to turn in repentance from my “rich man” lifestyle to love others more deeply, but that is how this particular teaching came to me.